In this episode we discuss:
- How skiing and horse riding are used in the development and education of children
- Another Way School and Community Center
- Bridging the gap between children and nature
- Promoting natural communication through horseback riding
- Skiing, movement and physical space
- The value of immersive educational environment
- Freilufslive: Free Air Life
- What's next for another way
- How you can attend Another Way School and Community Center
Hi everyone, Chris Kresser is here. Welcome to another episode Health Revolution RadioI am really excited about this week's episode. This summer we spent a week in Park City, and one of the main reasons we went there was for our daughter, Sylvie, to visit the camp at the Another Way Community Center. And this camp included outdoor training and Friluftsliv, which means "free air life." We’ll talk a little more about what exactly is in the podcast, as well as about the careful jump. And Sylvie just had an incredible time; it was transformative for her as well as for us. Can't wait to tell you a little more about this.
And this week, an interview with Diane Bode, who is the founder and CEO of Another Way Community Center. Diana is a teacher, author and illustrator. She grew up on a working ranch in Northern California during the twilight of America by Norman Rockwell. She was born in 1942 at a time when people were more connected with nature and studied with old people who knew the West before the buffalo disappeared. For over 40 years, she has been working to create bridges between the wild natural world and the modern technological world, creating models of healing and creative expression that are vital for a developing child. Diana devoted her life to creating an environment, a curriculum and educational materials designed to fully reveal the unique magic of every child in a true community of children and adults.
She brings a lot of knowledge to the classroom thanks to her unique combinations of teaching in the field of child development, which include a bachelor's degree in general primary education with a minor education in sociology, a master's degree in preschool education, a certification from the American Montessori Society, and a specialist diploma in preschool education . She also received training in NLP, neuro-linguistic programming; She is a certified professional ski instructor in America. She has provided extensive training in livestock, livestock and partnerships and has extensive experience in cross-border history and Native American traditions. She is also an author. Child skiing: American system for teaching childrenThis is a very innovative method of teaching skiing, not only for relaxation, but also so that children can more deeply communicate with their body and environment.
So I'm very excited about this conversation. We spent a lot of time in another way, when we were in Park City, we established a very close relationship with Diana and the other people we met there, and it just really corresponds to many things that, in my opinion, are becoming more and more important in this the world that we live today, in this modern world, where children are often separated from their bodies. They are disconnected from their bodies, they are disconnected from the natural world, they are disconnected from animals and from things that, as humans, have been a part of our lives throughout the vast majority of our evolutionary history. And I think that the therapeutic potential of the program created by Diana “Another Way” is truly phenomenal, and I am very excited about her work and I want to do everything possible to realize it in a wider world. Because I think we need it now more than ever. I hope you enjoy this interview as much as I do. Let's dive in.
Chris Kresser: Diana, I am very pleased to see you on the show. Thanks so much for joining us.
Diane Bode: Well, it's mutual. Thank you for accepting me.
How skiing and horse riding are used in the development and education of children
Chris Kresser: So I would like to start with a little talk about your past. We had a few conversations about this in Park City, and it's pretty fun. How did you become interested in horses and skiing as a tool for the development and education of children?
Diane Bode: Well, firstly, I was the daughter of a herder. So, I grew up on a working ranch. And we had mainly horses and dudes who rode on stables. And we also raised sheep, and the rest of my family were large herders. And so has been my whole life. Horses were my life. And as a teenager, I became interested in skiing and eventually became a ski instructor. So both of them were a huge part of my young life.
Chris Kresser: And the ranch, as I recall, was not far from the place where I am now. Like in Pittsburgh and Antioch, or somewhere else.
Diane Bode: It was in Northern California. Yes. It was a ranch between Pittsburgh and Antioch in the foothills. Behind this were two old ghost towns, Nortonville and Somerville, where my grandfather was born. And my grandfather on my father’s side was the largest sheep and cattle breeding operation in Northern California at the time in Contra Costa. Such a big ranch.
Chris Kresser: So the horses were in your blood, and then you started skiing very early. But how then did it happen, at what point did you realize that horses and skis can play an important role in the development of children and even in education?
Diane Bode: Well, I studied in graduate school, my degree is in American Montessori and in early childhood, and we had to do a synthesis project. And I was in the mountains at a ski resort, sitting on the deck, trying to get away, trying to figure out what I was going to do for this project, and watched a children's ski class, and I went: “Oh my gosh, Montessori’s theory of perceptual-motor thinking, cognitive development, learning theory, I could use skis as a means to teach how children learn. ”
And that was mine, I eventually got a master's degree in art. Therefore, I did a master's thesis instead of a synthesis project. And horses and skis have crossover skills that children develop. One of them is a relationship with the living world – the horse and the inanimate world – nature with skiing. And these two gathered for me at that time.
Chris Kresser: And there was a third element that is really important in your work and your vision, which I experienced when we were with you last week, namely: introducing Native American / Native American traditions within this frameworkSo, how did you first come across this and became interested in including this in this model?
Diane Bode: Well, this is strange because in childhood I was absolutely fascinated by Native Americans. No one really understands what this hobby was. But so what was there like a child. And then, when I arrived in Utah to host ski programs for professional ski instructors in America, I got to know the mountain culture of North America, and this activated all this part of my early childhood.
And then I became very interested in Clarence Sky, the then chief executive of United Sioux Tribes. And this, the whole philosophy of this, began to unfold, with the formation of Native Americans, which we could absolutely amazingly and positively influence. So it started to go into it. And originally it was the Other Way to the formation of the American Indians.
Chris Kresser: Right.
Diane Bode: And then it was done here in Park City, regardless of tribal history, nationality, color, race or creed.
Chris Kresser: So when did “The Other Way” actually begin in its embodied form?
Diane Bode: The embodied form began in 2004.
Another Way School and Community Center
Chris Kresser: And you have an amazing tool. This is such a special place. My whole family was there, so listeners know in Park City. And one of the main reasons that we went was that I discovered the Other Way on the Internet, and he collected so many elements that interest us as a family.
And for Sylvie, she has a strong connection with horses, which we don’t even know where she came from, because she did not grow around horses, unlike you, Diana. And she really, really loves skiing, and she loves local traditions. We introduced her to them and saw that everything in one place was very exciting for us. And then, when we arrived at the facility, it is really amazing what you did there. The buildings, and they are just beautiful inside and so well built for the children, and then the barn and horse zones. So how did it all come together? This is such a special place.
Diane Bode: I wanted to duplicate the beauty of the mountain environment and the ranch in which I grew up. Because for me it should be a complete immersion in experience. So in the end, in Montessori, is also a very organic feeling, a very earthly feeling.
Chris Kresser: Yes Yes
Diane Bode: So I wanted it to be present. And so the whole internal environment is more like a ranch. And then everything that I liked in our ranch environment, in the equipment room, in the log rooms, there are sheds right there so that the children could study in the classroom, doing math or reading work, and then they could go out and work directly. with horses.
And we would support what happened in mathematics and reading, with the experience that the child had with a horse or skiing. So the ski program is there. We have a small ski slope and training environment, as well as horses. Therefore, wherever the children look, a small view is visible, to the wigwam from behind. Old barn, for border skills. There is a ski slope, there are horses. Thus, it is one and more experience of complete immersion.
Our children are increasingly lagging behind the world – they spend hours indoors in the classroom or behind screens, and not in nature. Find out how your child can connect with nature and himself in this episode of RHR. #wellness #chriskresser
Bridging the gap between children and nature
Chris Kresser: And so it is. Like, I noticed that we spent a lot of time there, several hours every day. And when I was there, my nervous system just fell into several levels. I could feel a sense of rest and relaxation, as well as just the connection between being around horses and being in this spaceAnd, of course, Sylvie, she was so puzzled when she was there, and just after spending a week there, she did not want to leave. What I think is evidence that you have created.
And it also seems to me that one of the main problems in ordinary education, into which we can enter a little more, but how much it is fragmented and not integrated, has broken up, In the school that you mentioned, children can do math or something else, geography or language, and then they can go right out and the horses right there. Tipi for rituals and ceremonies. There is a room with these amazing beautiful saddles, some of which were handmade. It just seems so real and genuine. And I think that in today's environment, the environment of education, it is so necessary and so lacking.
Diane Bode: What really interested me was that the people around me modeled the work that I ultimately do. And for children today, the problem is that their parents go to work, and they have no idea what they are doing. And they are in an institutional environment where they cannot connect with the natural world.
Chris Kresser: Right.
Diane Bode: They have no connection, of course, with large animals, which is our heritage. I mean, horses and skis were once a way of life. They were transport.
Chris Kresser: Right.
Diane Bode: Without them, people were in great trouble. But what they will see here is how to apply everything, and they need to know the basic practical life skills, how to tie, how to put on a leash, how to ride a horse on horseback, how to be safe around a horse, how to read in the language of this horse .
Same thing with the mountain. The same thing when you ski. You look at this environment, read it, you understand what is safe, what is unsafe and what is your playground.
Chris Kresser: Right.
Diane Bode: And this is normal. And this is a collaboration with the environment and with your colleagues. We work together to play and work.
Chris Kresser: And they have such a powerful experience of being in their bodies in both of these disciplines, riding horses and being with horses and being on a mountain in the snow. And it seems to me that the way most classrooms are arranged now, this is so little.
It can be a 30-minute period of physical education or a short break when they are outside and really feel in their bodies. And I cannot help but wonder if this disconnection from nature, as well as disconnection from their own bodies, contributes to some explosions of behavioral disorders in children. This is really alarming and going in the wrong direction.
Raising a natural connection through horseback riding
Diane Bode: Horses are a relationship with another intelligent animal. Native Americans call it "we are all connected. »Each template affects any other template. And children who study nature and books even learn to ride in the arena, doing competitions. This is completely different when you see yourself in partnership.
And you also acknowledge that the animal has a language, that when we learn it, we can cooperate at a deep level. Horses are telepathic. Therefore, when you begin to respect and understand their language, a connection occurs at a deep, deep spiritual level, a deep spiritual level. And they are a bridge to nature. There is active intelligence in nature. This is not a dead inanimate thing or what we use as a natural resource.
Chris Kresser: Yeah.
Diane Bode: This is closely related to us. Closely connected with us. And these relationships, children, if you look at any of the studies, are socially isolated.
Chris Kresser: Yeah.
Diane Bode: And this interaction is from a place of deep respect, from the knowledge that we are really all connected, that this brings children into relationships with each other and with nature. Horses are a bridge to the natural world. It is interesting to observe a mother tree in a large forest, and mother trees produce hundreds, maybe thousands, of small seedlings.
And there is a connection between them. And it looks like a mycelium, maybe one of them. And the children look at it, there is an active intellect of which we are a part. We do not act on it, we are part of it. And this returns to the fact that we are all connected. There is one mind expressing in infinite form. And we see ourselves as separate and act when, in fact, we are its integral part. Do not separate from this.
Chris Kresser: Absolutely.
Diane Bode: And children, all this with the disorder of nature’s deficit, interaction with horses and the way it is, and complete immersion, it reduces social isolation and unites us all, adults, children, animals, nature.
Chris Kresser: And I think this part about horses, offering this kind of deep and deep reflection of us and how these relationships can really give us an understanding of who we are. I really saw this with Sylvie when she spent time with you and spent camp, and then lessons with you. Because she is a very energetic child, as you saw, Diana, and an amazing, bright person. And I was very pleased to see that the horse with whom you mated and chose it for her, which was also an energetic creature, mustang blood, and it really seemed that this match was perfect.
As if Sylvie had the opportunity to see a reflection of himself and feel himself differently on this horse. And when she arrived, she was only taken on a horse along the path and just led a little in the ring. And by the time she left, which was actually stopped only five days later, she was riding the ring herself and avoiding obstacles, rather surprisingly controlling the horse. It was just great to see it.
Diane Bode: It caused her, she's natural. And that caused all this when she realized how to communicate with Minnie, who was a full-blown Mustang, northern Utah and Nevada Mustang, and a mare who was very sensitive, very smart.
And when Sylvie learned to work with her and saw how little she needed to do, when she learned the language of the horse, how little she needed to do to get such an answer, and that she needed to be a leader in this, and she could be As soon as the mare realized that she respects her and feels what Minnie needed to introduce, this mare began to work with her. And Sylvie was just starting to bloom.
Chris Kresser: Absolutely.
Diane Bode: Her little petals began to come out everywhere. And she could, she rode that mare, and it was the powerful mare she was on, and she did an amazing job. You would never know that a child has been working with a horse for less than five days.
Chris Kresser: I certainly won’t. Как я уже сказал, это является свидетельством для ее учителя, и вы, и результаты этого поразительны, и удивительно видеть, что, даже если вернуться домой через неделю, она кажется более уверенной. Не то чтобы она обязательно боролась с этим сама по себе, но она кажется более обоснованной и твердой, уверенной и даже более чувствительной.
Например, я думаю, что опыт просто быть, учиться слушать те небольшие сигналы, которые она получает, которые она получила от Минни, и затем также общаться с этими тонкими сигналами, это действительно как-то привело к своего рода утонченности, которой я не обладаю ». Я видел что-нибудь еще сделать. И это, конечно, одна из причин, по которой мы ведем этот разговор. Я просто думаю, что это так мощно, что лошади могут предложить детям.
Дайан Боде: Что ж, это действительно интересно для меня, потому что я узнаю каждую наносекунду, что я там, я учусь опустошать свою чашку и проявлять любопытство и говорить: «О, черт возьми, если что-то не работает, что продолжается? Это здесь во мне, я что-то здесь упускаю? »Но когда у вас есть такой ребенок на большом брате, большой 1200 фунтов, это большой мустанг, хорошо?
Крис Крессер: Ага-ага.
Дайан Боде: И она, и эта кобыла полностью доверяют ей, чтобы провести ее через этот курс, и эти двое сливаются. Когда она попадает в другую ситуацию, она овладела лошадью весом от 12 до 1300 фунтов, по крайней мере, через лабиринт, она может сделать это где угодно.
Крис Крессер: Да. И я видел этот взгляд.
Дайан Боде: Она может сделать это где угодно. И она должна остановиться и убедиться, что у нее есть вся информация, прежде чем она двинется вперед. Правильно ли она прочитала ситуацию?
Крис Крессер: Да уж.
Дайан Боде: И тогда она может войти в это с той же уверенностью, что и на Минни.
Крис Крессер: Да. И я это видел. Вы, наверное, помните это. Я смотрел вниз
день, и я увидел, и Минни, она просто взлетает, даже когда Сильви …
Дайан Боде: Да, она сделала.
Крис Крессер: Ей нравится бегать, и она просто начала взлетать. Я видел это мгновенное выражение лица Сильви от страха. И тогда вы были прямо там, конечно, и она была в полной безопасности. А потом, после того, как этот взгляд прошел, я увидел, что она вроде как выпрямляется, и она, кстати, ехала без седла, даже в седле. И тогда она просто получила контроль над Минни, а затем смогла продолжать кататься.
И это было, я думаю, это был огромный момент для нее, чтобы почувствовать этот страх, а затем узнать, что вы были там, и она была в безопасности. Но потом преодолеть это и узнать, что она была равной этому. Я имею в виду, что, как вы сказали, это может быть использовано в самых разных сферах жизни.
Дайан Боде: Учительнице также важно знать не только своих учеников, но и лошадей. И быть абсолютно настоящим в данный момент, каждый момент, когда этот ребенок на лошади. И чтобы иметь возможность кричать и знать, что у Сильви было достаточно времени на задание, чтобы сказать, чтобы понять, когда я сказал: «Принеси эту кобылу, Сильви, верни эту кобылу. Потяните ее вниз, потяните ее вниз ». И я тоже увидел это мгновение, и затем она сказала:« Я могу сделать это », и она вернула ту кобылу обратно, она собрала ее и привела в чувство. И тогда эта улыбка охватила ее лицо. И она получила это, она получила это.
Крис Крессер: Да да
Дайан Боде: И поскольку я знал, что Минни вернется, и я был там, я мог бы вернуть Минни обратно. Но ей нужно было это сделать, ей нужно было это сделать. И вот что происходит.
И у нас здесь замечательный молодой человек. Ему около 14 лет, и он на спектакле. И год назад он мог сделать очень, очень, очень мало. И он отправился в свою первую поездку с коллегой здесь два дня назад. И было радостно видеть, что этот ребенок способен оседлать, обуздать и ездить самостоятельно, независимо. Языковые навыки там, глядя, просто изысканные.
И то же самое с другим студентом, у которого были некоторые проблемы, которые теперь независимы и самодостаточны. Действительно радостно видеть, что с этими детьми происходит переход от недоверия к глубоко уверенному и умелому.
Лыжи, движение и физическое пространство
Крис Крессер: Да. Поэтому я хочу немного переключиться здесь и поговорить о лыжах в аналогичном качестве. Таким образом, вы, я думаю, во время магистерской работы или после нее создали подход, который называется лыжным спортом. Который действительно смотрит на лыжах гораздо больше, чем просто отдых. Итак, расскажите нам, как это произошло и что это такое.
Дайан Боде: О, в аспирантуре у нас была очень необычная программа Монтессори. Мой профессор доктор Петерсон окончил Беркли, и на самом деле она сфокусировалась на когнитивном развитии, теории Пиагетии. Итак, когда эта программа была создана в Св. Марии, она включала в себя не только обучение Монтессори, но и теорию перцептивного двигателя, когнитивное развитие, теорию обучения – все это вместе.
И вот, как только я начал понимать, что происходит в когнитивном развитии, в теории восприятия, я понял, что для того, чтобы дети действительно могли функционировать в академической обстановке, необходимо иметь на борту шесть полей пространства:
- До космоса
- Вниз космос
- Переднее пространство
- Заднее пространство
Ось Z, хорошо? Понятие понимания, понятие в, положить что-то в или между требует умения пропускать.
Основные навыки движения, ходьба, прыжки, прыжки с трамплина, прыжки, галоп и скольжение – все это должно быть прекрасно, чтобы ребенок действительно функционировал в академическом мире. Подумайте о чтении, где это идет? Слева направо. Как насчет математики?
Крис Крессер: Да уж.
Дайан Боде: Сверху вниз, слева направо, диагонали, вертикали и все такое. Геометрия, хорошо. Все это требует знания физического пространства. Дети, слева и справа, зная, что друг, который сидит в комнате, его часы на левой руке, я сижу напротив него. Как я узнал это? Я должен быть в состоянии занять его позицию восприятия, не теряя своего, чтобы знать, что у него есть. Эти знания не развивались до 11 лет. И в этой стране они больше не развиваются, потому что физическая активность и взаимодействие с природой для многих из этих детей практически бесполезны.
И так, во-первых, вы получаете латеральность, которая знает ваши направо и налево. Поэтому мы разработали цветовую кодировку для катания на лыжах. И затем я смог донести это, когда дети наблюдали за другими детьми в ипподроме, когда у нас был закодирован ипподром слева направо. И эти маленькие пятилетние дети могли сказать, был ли это левый или правый поворот. Конечно, потому что мы разработали это с ними.
И поэтому я был очарован этим. А также акцент Монтессори на том, что дети учатся в непосредственном взаимодействии с окружающей средой через свою собственную деятельность, и никаким другим способом. Это должно быть физически ориентировано. Этого нельзя узнать из книги. Детям нужна эта физичность. А также дети в возрасте от трех до шести лет находятся в периоде поглощающего ума. Поэтому нам нужно связать их с природой.
Крис Крессер: Да уж. Это так фундаментально.
Дайан Боде: И, вероятно, снимая слишком много мест.
Крис Крессер: Я имею в виду, Сильви участвует в программе Уолдорфа, которая, как вы знаете, имеет схожую философию. Например, было интересно наблюдать, как она изучает математику. Они стоят и танцуют, по сути, маршируют и двигаются. И они делают подобные синхронизированные движения, пока учат математику.
И она узнала, было удивительно наблюдать, насколько быстрее они учатся таким образом, когда это воплощено, И по-разному, у них так много более глубокого понимания этого. Я помню, когда я впервые учился и когда вы учитесь из книги, когда вы изучаете ее вне контекста, вы не понимаете все связи и то, как они сочетаются друг с другом. Вы могли бы запомнить таблицы умножения и тому подобное. Но, Сильви, просто удивительно видеть глубину понимания, которое развивается, когда оно воплощается таким образом.
Дайан Боде: Вы должны владеть своим телом, прежде чем сможете делать что-либо еще. Когда вы думаете об этом, у вас должна быть такая большая мышечная координация, а затем небольшая мышечная координация больших мышц, что является ключевым фактором при катании на лыжах. Но это похоже на лошадь. Вы должны иметь, в катании на лыжах это интересно, потому что он переключает фокус с головы вниз, от центра к ногам вверх, к центру.
Крис Крессер: Да.
Дайан Боде: Очень интересно. Таким образом, с верховой ездой, у вас есть голова вниз, в центре, но точно такое же движение. Вы должны быть в состоянии свернуть это бедро, чтобы действительно схватить эту лошадь с внутренней стороны бедра. Вы должны катить это бедренную кость, когда катаетесь на лыжах от малого пальца ноги, к внутренней лыже к большому пальцу ноги на внешней лыже. Координация верхней и нижней части тела точно такая же. И что он развивает, так это прекрасный уровень функций, который вы не можете развить каким-либо другим способом, просто не можете.
Крис Крессер: Другой способ, да. Это идеально.
Дайан Боде: И, и я имею в виду, и я помню. Это нормально. Я начал взлетать по касательной, и я не пойду туда.
Крис Крессер: Ничего страшного. Я хотел немного оттащить вас назад к лыжной части, потому что это действительно замечательно. Я имею в виду, я видел видео, которое вы прислали мне, когда мы впервые встретились с вами, когда вы учите некоторых молодых, в том числе очень маленьких, детей кататься на лыжах, и я был просто потрясен увиденным.
И мы собираемся поместить ссылку на это видео в заметки к шоу для этого эпизода. Так что, если люди хотят увидеть некоторые вещи, о которых мы говорим, вы можете перейти на ChrisKresser.com/AnotherWay, и у нас будут некоторые ссылки и прочее, чтобы вы могли их увидеть. Но что меня удивило, так это то, сколько лет было самой младшей, Диана?
Дайан Боде: Ну, вообще-то, самой младшей было три года, но ее там не было. А ее сестре было пять лет. Их там не было. И они одинаково достигнуты. Самому младшему было четверо. Он в маленьких красных штанах, а затем его шестилетней сестре, а затем самой старой – семь. И я не учу клин.
Крис Крессер: Да, я собирался сказать.
Дайан Боде: Вы знаете программу. Сначала внутри.
Крис Крессер: Да, вы обычно видите детей такого возраста, которые просто втискиваются в гору. И они могут идти быстро, но они полностью заклинивают. Эти дети были похожи, лодыжки заперты, параллельно разворачивались, бомбили вниз по склону. Я не мог поверить в это, когда смотрел видео. Я показал это своей жене, и мы все смотрели, и я сказал: «Что здесь происходит? Как это вообще работает? »А потом, когда я приехал в гости, вы поделились, что у вас совершенно другой метод обучения катанию на лыжах, который полностью пропускает клин. Так расскажите нам, как это работает.
Дайан Боде: Хорошо, в результате моей магистерской диссертации в Св. Марии, я закончил тем, что написал книгу для профессиональных лыжных инструкторов Америки под названием Детское катание на лыжах: американская система обучения детей это интегрировало все то, о чем я говорил ранее. Который может применяться к чему угодно, кстати. И это то, что мы делали, применяя лошадей.
Но то, что я сделал, когда открылся «Другой путь», я разместил здесь программу и обучаю параллельным навыкам. Мы изучали катание на лыжах на уровне Кубка мира, катание на лыжах на уровне Кубка мира, чтобы выяснить, что должно быть там с детьми. А затем в помещении я даю им эти движения. Я также, как вы знаете, у меня было около 15 лет опыта работы в Фельденкрайзе. Хотя не удостоверял в этом.
Таким образом, движения, которые должны быть там, способность перевернуть ногу, поднять большой палец от плоского до маленького, чтобы иметь возможность двигать бедренную кость, наблюдать за движением голеностопного сустава и чувствовать его движение в бедре, мы развили все навыки которые должны присутствовать там с этими двумя с половиной годами, я буду работать с двумя с половиной годами примерно через неделю. И она будет делать параллельные повороты.
Крис Крессер: Это восхитительно.
Дайан Боде: И я могу разработать все параллельные движения на ковре перед зеркалами. А потом у меня есть учебное пособие, куда я могу их переместить, и они могут развить утонченность прямо на ковре. И затем, когда у них есть это, они выходят и делают те же самые шаги на тренировочном склоне. И затем они отправляются на большой курорт, и они уже находятся в кресельной канатной дороге, и они начинают с основного подъемника, а затем они поднимаются на вершину горы.
Но я смотрю на них очень и очень внимательно. Убедитесь, что мы установили их в оборудовании, проведем биомеханическую оценку, убедимся, что они находятся в правильном положении. И если у них есть какой-то вид, если они слишком далеко снаружи или изнутри, тогда мы устанавливаем их с помощью ортопедических приспособлений и внимательно следим, потому что они растут. И поэтому мы должны убедиться, что мы корректируем эти ортопедические приспособления по мере их роста, чтобы они всегда были в центре, всегда в наилучшем месте.
И мы уверены, что лыжи нужной длины. Они приспосабливаются к пяткам, поэтому мы перемещаем их так, чтобы они всегда были в мертвой точке. И эти лыжи тщательно поддерживаются, как олимпийский спортсмен. Потому что они такие чувствительные. И как только они получат ходы, вы можете поставить того, с кем они катаются на лыжах, сзади или с ними, они дублируют эти ходы. И поэтому мы работаем, чтобы получить их прямо сейчас с лучшими лыжниками, которые там есть. И у нас есть несколько олимпийских спортсменов, которые связаны с нами. У нас был лыжный тренер, который видел этих детей, и он сказал, что никогда не знал, что такие молодые дети могут делать навыки на этом уровне. Таким образом, они обладают огромной гибкостью.
Крис Крессер: Нет, я никогда не видел ничего подобного.
Дайан Боде: Чудовищная.
Крис Крессер: Да уж.
Diane Bode: And I’m not saying I’m an Olympic athlete, but at least I got them to this point. And now this will be working next year, to put that little group of children in front of somebody that has even better skills than I have.
Chris Kresser: Well Diane, you’re too modest, so you won’t say this. But I was shocked when we got there and you told me you were 78 years old, because when you see in this video, you’re skiing with such fluidity and grace. And I think that’s also a testament to your method. And it doesn’t just work for two-and-a-half-year-old kids, it also works for people, works for us as we age and grow older so we can protect our bodies and take care of ourselves.
Diane Bode: Because you’re an infinite being, my darling. You’re an infinite being. You can do anything you darn well want to do. It’s your mind that matters. And certainly Bruce Lipton and a number of people would say it’s, and you know that, it’s what’s in your mind that’s most important. And then your little star suit will do as directed.
The Value of an Immersive Educational Environment
Chris Kresser: So, for the listeners, I have a picture of this in my mind, but they may not. So I want to let everyone know that everything that you just described, the barn with the mirrors and all the skis, is right there on the property.
Diane Bode: Да.
Chris Kresser: It’s right next to the tack room, which is across from the stables and where the horses are, which is across from the main building with the kitchen and where the kids are and they do their indoor learning. It’s amazing to just be able to go from a lesson on math to doing something in the teepee and sitting together in a circle and starting the day to taking care of the horses or doing a bit of riding to going in the building and practicing in front of the mirror and getting your parallel turns. And then even going outside and going down the little hill there to get that, all in one area and one facility which is really, really remarkable, again, what’s there.
Diane Bode: It’s really a joy to have it be that way because whatever’s needed, you can move to that area that’s best. Like the other day we were having an issue, so we used the Plains Indian Tribal Council model that I told you about with a talking stick and we go into that teepee and sage ourselves off. And they go there if they’re having a problem.
They go gather, gripe, grope, grasp, and group and they work through their problems together. And whether it’s an issue with scheduling or horses or a conflict between with children, we can move wherever is best suited to what is at hand, the issue that is at hand. And it’s true. It’s really fun to have an environment set up that allows that total immersion experience to happen.
Chris Kresser: Да. So I want to move on to talk about a couple other elements of the Another Way model that we haven’t discussed yet. But before I do that, my guess is there are some people in the audience who are listening to this, and I even had this thought as well before I learned more about this model. Like, they’re thinking, “Okay, skiing and equestrian. Well, that’s a little bit elitist, isn’t it? That’s totally out of reach for most people, and skiing and horses are just for rich people.” So how would you respond to that?
Diane Bode: Well, elitist maybe now, but they were a way of life before.
Chris Kresser: Yeah.
Diane Bode: Skiing mainly in Norway. But also here. The mountain men were doing that. Horses were, I mean, look at horse power. Without the horse, would we have civilization?
Chris Kresser: Oh, you said to me, it used to be that poor people had horses and rich people had cars. And now it’s the opposite.
Diane Bode: It’s the opposite. Here, what the idea is is about collaboration and cooperation. It’s about pooling our resources so that we can give the best of who we are to these children. Montessori had made a comment. She said, “If ever the people really understood the tremendous power for good or evil in childhood, they would stop for nothing to pour themselves into giving these children what they need, and stepping out of the way.”
Because the children are just pure wrought, energetic genius. Okay? And we put everything in a little box in school and to get into specific professions and whatever. They’re geniuses. And if we can just provide an environment that encourages them and nurtures them, and we can be curious, and we can fire their passions and connect them, nature is the inspiration for all the arts and sciences, mathematics, technology, everything, Everything.
Chris Kresser: Absolutely, couldn’t agree more. And it’s, in my profession in Functional Medicine, one of the basic tenets is it’s far easier to prevent a disease or a condition before it occurs than it is to treat it after it’s already manifested. And this kind of reminds me of that. Like with childhood, of course, in education, it’s way better to provide a solid foundation in everything that we’re talking about for kids early on. That’s more likely to prevent problems in the teenage years and as young adults, and even all the way through adulthood.
But the way it’s happening now in many cases is you have kids who are already feeling totally disconnected from the natural environment, from their own bodies, because of the way that school sets up and screens, which we’re going to talk about more later. But this approach is really about creating that deep connection to nature and self early on, so they can carry that with them through their lives.
Diane Bode: Well, you had said something about well, it’s elitist, and how do we do this? We provide the horses. Because we’re here, the children can come in. We can provide scholarships for children who might not otherwise be able to afford this. But we have the courses here. We’re linked up with a trail system that is absolutely out of this world.
Chris Kresser: Красивый.
Diane Bode: So we can do the development right here and then we can take them onto a trail system and connect them with absolutely stunningly beautiful places right here locally in Park City. Plus, we can then take them up into other areas for experiences. But we have the horses. So they don’t have to, the parents don’t have to go out and pay …
Chris Kresser: No, it was very affordable.
Diane Bode: … $50 to $150,000 or more for a horse. I mean, that’s competing on a national level. Though if they want to compete, they can. There are programs here. There’s a program out of Kamas with a friend of mine, Diane Roberts, who takes children all over the country in high-level competition. Children that would never be able to do that.
Chris Kresser: Yeah.
Diane Bode: But the horses are provided and they’re taking these kids if that’s where they want to go. Our thing is connecting, when you come from the heart and you’re guided by spirit, there’s always another way, That’s a Sioux expression.
Chris Kresser: Да.
Diane Bode: And that’s why actually the school was, there’s a couple, the Laubins, who wrote all of the books that are used for Dances with Wolves, Into the West, all these native programs. And they were friends of mine. And before they passed, Reg said, “I want you to call your school Another Way.”
Chris Kresser: Да.
Diane Bode: “When you come from the heart or guided by spirit, there’s always another way.” But we’re looking at the genius of childhood. We can come together and collaborate and provide what these children need. And the resources are all there for whoever needs whatever they need.
Chris Kresser: Абсолютно.
Diane Bode: The trucks, the trailers, the horses. It’s there. They’re not having to do it in isolation.
Chris Kresser: I saw that happening.
Diane Bode: Because you’re the community.
Friluftsliv: Free Air Life
Chris Kresser: I saw that happening. And I mean, the camp was very affordable and I know your ski programs are too. So I want to talk a little bit about, so far we’ve talked about the horses, we’ve talked about the Native traditions as being a piece of it, the child-centered skiing. But there are a couple of other elements we haven’t touched on yet. One is outdoor education and Friluftsliv, I think I’m pronouncing that somewhat closely.
Diane Bode: You are, Friluftsliv, yes.
Chris Kresser: Friluftsliv. And then the other one is frontier skills, the way of the wild. So let’s start with outdoor education and Friluftsliv. When Sylvie was at camp with you, she did horses, and then they also went up to 9,000 feet and did some—
Diane Bode: 10.
Chris Kresser: … outdoor, yeah. And then 10.
Diane Bode: 10,000.
Chris Kresser: 10 was the second time, that’s right. So tell us a little bit more about who’s been involved there, what is Friluftsliv, this very difficult word for me to pronounce, I think it’s a Norwegian word, and what role does this play in the Another Way framework?
Diane Bode: Friluftsliv is a Norwegian program. It is used in Finland. It is the ground. It is the command center for their educational center. It means, it translates to “free air life.”
Chris Kresser: Да.
Diane Bode: And it’s a nature-based philosophy where no … children in Finland, which has one of the highest academic ratings in the world, traditionally, it’s between one and three always. And the children are happy. And I think, so, something we didn’t really put in, there’s a joy from learning, from your own activity and direct interaction with the environment, with others, that is joy. It’s fun.
The children in Finland are in these nature programs. They’re out in nature from two-and-a-half to six. They don’t even teach reading until age seven, when binocular vision comes in and the children have had all these physical experiences and are skilled in the fundamental movement skills. By age six, they’re skilled, they’re really skilled. They’re ready to rock and roll. And that nature program, that connection with nature is important, because between three and six is that period of the absorbent mind.
The imagine plasticity, where you can join with whatever draws your attention, be it a tree, a little piglet, a horse, whatever. They can actually merge with that. And so, normally, in Finland they’re big on that and the interesting thing is, if people are interested in looking that up, go look at those forest kindergartens, those forest schools.
Chris Kresser: Да.
Diane Bode: They’re phenomenal. And look at the joy in these children and look at the fact that Finland is on the top of its game academically and these kids are happy, they’re not killing themselves.
Chris Kresser: Yeah, it’s not like you’re—
Diane Bode: They’re not commiting suicide.
Chris Kresser: … not sacrificing academics for connection with nature, you actually get both. And the key principle that I think a lot of people don’t understand is there’s this idea in conventional education, like if things aren’t going well, we’ll just give them more homework or start them earlier with academic skills, And what’s always struck me is that if you go even and look at the scientific literature on education, there’s nothing there that supports that idea.
It’s so mismatched, even just the most conventional resources you look up on education, there is no proof at all that starting kids earlier on academics and giving them homework when they’re really young, not only does it not help, it actually harms, And so then you look at this model of Friluftsliv, which I think is “free air life,” right Diane? You look at this model, and you see that not only are these kids developing a strong connection with nature, and not only are they joyful and healthy because they’re not sitting behind a screen the entire day, but they’re actually coming out ahead of kids who start earlier in academics. I think a lot of people don’t understand that.
Diane Bode: Well, it’s really interesting if you go back 150 years, the level of competency in children. If you look at Meriwether Clark and that whole bunch of founding fathers, those guys are out there before dawn.
Chris Kresser: О да.
Diane Bode: Clearing out their traps and skinning their animals. They are five and six years old. American Indians, those children were out watching the herds then. They know how to use knives, they knew how to start a fire, they were independent and self-sufficient. On the ranch at six, my mom was teaching me to drive. My cousins at seven and eight were on tractors, driving tractors. My cousin John was driving a truck. All 10 of us in that truck and at five we’d be out changing sprinklers. And he was driving and the oldest of us was 13. I mean, even with us, we were skilled beyond belief.
My cousin Bill was breaking colts for the Diamond K. At age 10 he was working colts for a ranch about a quarter of a mile down the way. So I mean, we have really, if you look at some of the literature out there, we have retarded our children. We have retarded them and we’re boxing them and tracking them and they are not happy. And they’re also looking at some of the stuff that we’re doing environmentally that’s all based on instant gratification and profit and not thinking about like the Indians did. They made decisions under the seventh generation of all the unborn.
Chris Kresser: Да.
Diane Bode: Four-legged, two-legged, finned, wingeds. And that’s what is happening in Friluftsliv, more of really seeing that we are one with nature. We’re not separate. What happens to nature happens to us. And we think we’re so smart. Well, who was here before us? The trees. So there. That’s it. I quit.
Chris Kresser: Абсолютно. So yeah, and then you have some amazing people involved with this. I met a couple of them. I didn’t get to spend as much time with Tom, but I met Ildiko, who is a former Olympic athlete.
Diane Bode: Oh my goodness, yes.
Chris Kresser: Bobsled driver and Olympic archer as well and used to shoot, do archery from a horse riding at high speeds and getting her PhD, I think at the University of, was it Utah?
Diane Bode: Yeah, University of Utah in kinesiology. She’s Hungarian and she is an Olympian. And then Tom is from Norway and was working with the original people in Friluftsliv, and he ran the Norwegian outdoor center here for 32 years, 18,000 at-risk kids. So Tom is here, Tom and Ildiko are teamed in the Friluftsliv program. And she’s bringing in her tremendous expertise, not only from wilderness training and from Europe in Hungary, okay, but also her degree at the U in kinesiology.
Chris Kresser: Yeah, she’s studying the impact of physical activity on stress hormones like interleukin 6, we chatted about that. We had a great connection. It was really fun to meet her. And then let’s talk a little bit about the frontier skills.
Diane Bode: Oh my goodness.
Chris Kresser: Because that’s a whole other piece and we didn’t get a chance to experience that this time. But I’m looking forward to it in the future. Because Sylvie, as you know, Diane, shortly before we came to see you, she had been at a wilderness camp with a deep Native American tradition in frontier skills. She learned to make moccasins and shelters and track animals and people. And she just loved it. It was amazing to see how that affected her.
Diane Bode: Well, the children meet in the teepee pretty much every day to do, to gather and greet the day, and then look at where we were going and what we were doing. The primary thing with, certainly, the frontier skills is, Joseph Campbell said this, actually, in The Power of Myth, I was fascinated with that when he said, “The American Indians who were in a culture that was really steeped in blood were evolving a highly spiritual way of life. And it was rather rudely interrupted by a pack of people coming over from Europe and the Old World.”
And so the idea was to study history, starting with the tribes, and what they were evolving here and the skills and the knowledge base they had to give us. And then look at Europe and study what was happening in European history and understand what was behind that migration in 1492. What was happening in Europe that created that surge this way? And how did that clash of cultures take place? Because if you look at Europe, you had plagues, the bubonic plague. We had a mess in Europe. Maybe they had to leave and come over here.
And we had two cultures that absolutely had no way of communicating with one another. They had absolutely no way. Innocence. Okay? And a mess. And so now where we are, and Joseph Campbell said it was rather rudely interrupted. Well, why don’t we just get that one going again?
Chris Kresser: Yeah, yeah.
Diane Bode: Хорошо. And we can bring that knowledge base together with the incredible technology that we have. Instead of getting lost in virtual reality, we are going to step into what inspired it all, okay?
Chris Kresser: Yes, yes.
Diane Bode: Because Montessori had very clearly stated that nature’s the inspiration for all of it. And we are getting lost in tiny little puzzle pieces. We need to do what the American Indian did. Go to the position of the eagle. Rise above the battleground and look down and see what’s there and know that the only purpose for our little starsuits is to extend love and answer cries for help. That’s what we’re about here. And we can either, we’ve created a lot of wastelands. Why don’t we create some wonderlands? And have fun doing it together?
Chris Kresser: I’m on board. So I want to ask you, you’ve been doing this for a long time. And the more formal Another Way since 2004. So can you just give us a couple vignettes or examples of the kids who’ve gone through that program and where they are now, what they’re up to and what you see in how this has impacted kids lives?
Diane Bode: Well, the children pretty much stay in touch. I just ran into a mom at the local grocery store a couple of days ago, and she said to me, it was extraordinary. Two of the twins are on a mission right now. And another one is in school, the three children that were here. And she said, “Of all programs they were in,” she said, “the only school they remember, the only one they talk about all the time is Another Way.” And she said, “It’s the most extraordinary thing because they had such an integrated experience that even when they left the school at nine to go onto a different program, they never forgot it.”
So I have one student in the Midwest, he’s finishing his graduate work. I have another young student, she just graduated from high school. She’ll be going to Harvard. And then the other ones are all over the place. They’re at the University of Utah, the University of Virginia, San Luis Obispo, NYU Dubai, they’re everywhere. And I stay in touch with their parents and with them. And they come by and often end up working in summer programs here. I have had teenagers here helping administratively in the office and doing scheduling. We have teenagers here that are in there, they’re at the junior high. Well actually, they’re freshmen.
So they’re based at the junior high here and then doing classes at the high school that have been here all summer working as volunteers with the program. We have some that are seniors in high school. They stay connected, they show up if I ask for help, and I need their input. They’re part of the shirt wearers. They’re in the tribal council.
Chris Kresser: Yes, yes.
Diane Bode: The teenagers are.
What’s Next for Another Way
Chris Kresser: So Another Way has gone through some shifts and evolutions over time, as most organizations do. And now you’ve expanded it to be a place where not just kids come together, but even teens and adults can participate in some of the activities together and families can participate as we did when we were there last time.
And I also understand that you’re starting to consider a training program where you would pass on the work that you’ve developed in child-centered skiing and horsemanship to the next generation of people so that this amazing model can be continued. Can you talk a little bit about that vision?
Diane Bode: In graduate school when this was all coming together, I saw ultimately, first the instructional program and then the book and the school, and then a community center. And that two years ago, there was a tragic thing that happened here with two teenagers who killed themselves. And they were heavily involved with designer drugs. And the girls, the teenage girls that were their girlfriends, and part of that group came and said, “We would like to have something other than we have here. Could we have mentoring? Could we do apprenticeships? Could we learn how to do some of the things that we’re doing here? Could we have a center that is practical, that we could come and learn from people who are who are really skilled in their professions?” And I thought of a …
And so two years ago, I made the decision that we needed to open this up as a teacher training program, a mentoring program and more of a community center, because we have wonderful schools here. We have the incredible National Ability Center that does amazing work. And we have beautiful schools, but we have this nature connection and the Montessori connection that is really unique there. How could we pool our resources and make what we’re doing more available to the larger community? And so I’ve been in a process of doing that over the last two years to sort out how to do this. And making this a joyful experience for the people that are coming here and learning that one, we need to educate those parents, so when the children come here and experience this, the parents understand what’s going on.
And that we’re really building a core community focused on building and maintaining relationships and doing that in a joyful fashion. And passing this knowledge on, passing this knowledge on, and we can make things available that instead of having it being elitist and isolated, oh no. We have the means to pull us together so that every child benefits from this. Every child has the opportunity to learn with these wonderful, wonderful, wonderful experiences, and these wonderful materials. And that the genius of the parents comes in here. This isn’t, I mean, I’m the founder and the visionary that started this. I’ve been the executive director playing a one-man band. It is time for some other things to come into play here.
Chris Kresser: Абсолютно.
Diane Bode: And let me start sharing the skills. The book. Making that available and all the different parts of this. Not just the skiing, not just the horses. It’s an integrated whole. It’s a seamless robe. And I wanted to be able to pass this on, that benefits this entire community. Everybody.
Chris Kresser: Да. And that’s part of why we’re having this conversation. Because I came, we came as a family and we were all so deeply affected by it. I just wanted to do whatever I could to get your vision and the work that you’ve done out there into a broader awareness and a larger population. And give people a sense of what’s possible with all of these things put together for not only for childhood development, but for families and teens and adults.
And you have, it’s just amazing to see what you’ve accomplished with significant help, but really, like you said, being a one-person band in the sense of the buck stopping with you with just about everything. And I know there are people out there who are listening to this who want to be involved in something like this. We had podcasts with Diana Rogers, who was making a film on the importance of animals in the food system and the importance of including animal products in the diet. And she needed help raising money for the film. And we had an amazing response from people who were listening, including an extremely generous contributor who wrote a significant check to help get the film started. And I just actually did my interview with Diana for the film, and it’s happening.
And so we never know who’s out there and who wants to be part of something like this. I mean, I suspect that there are a lot of people that may want to support in some way because this speaks to them. They see that our kids are suffering from this disconnection from nature and from spending seven hours on average now behind a screen, whether that’s a computer, an iPad, or a phone, and the angst and the sense of social isolation that this is creating, as you said. And for us to have something like this that provides a clear and proven model for helping kids develop an authentic and strong real relationship with nature and themselves and their bodies, and which actually supports their academic development, we can’t afford to lose this.
And you’re an amazingly healthy person, Diane, at 78. I want to be like you when I’m 78. And it’s like, we all die at some point and this has to be, this work has to be passed on to the next generation. So I want to see this vision for a center where not only people locally in Park City and other parts of Utah can come and participate in this, but that people can come and train in these modalities and then bringing that back to their own local communities. Like that’s the thing that really inspires me, because you’ve got too much experience and knowledge in these areas to let it go.
Diane Bode: Well, my dear, I made a commitment with all of this, okay, that I would be here as long as I am needed. And then my starsuit will dissolve and I’ll be reassigned somewhere. But right now the commitment is 100 percent here. And my dream in Utah, with this incredible, incredible state is that we could bring people here and educate them, and they could go back to their communities with what they learned here.
Instead of just paving Utah, keep it wild and free, and develop this differently. But what is really needed here in order to take this further definitely, is what you were saying, is the financial support, it’s being able to pull the team together that is developed here. Let us sit down and look at what we’ve put together here that works. Look at all of it, the things that didn’t work, the things that do work. And we have models that work in each one and we don’t have to prove anything. It works. Okay? And to be able to have enough backing to do the training. Ultimately bring us together to prioritize, do the training for us, and then create that infrastructure development so that this can operate year round, year round and provide what is needed here.
Chris Kresser: Абсолютно.
Diane Bode: So we’re in a position now where we’ve taken it, I’ve taken it about as far as it can go without bringing in more shirt wearers here. And if there are people in your constituency that would be interested, their expertise is vitally needed.
Chris Kresser: Абсолютно.
Diane Bode: This is the mark. If we want the Starship Enterprise, we’ve got that original biplane. You want the Starship Enterprise? Believe me, it’s all there. But it’s going to take us coming together, and it’s all there.
Chris Kresser: Yeah.
Diane Bode: The original model is there, okay? And so, we want to do an in-residence program here. We’re going to need to have to develop the infrastructure. We’ve got an amazing, amazing location.
Chris Kresser: Да.
Diane Bode: And we can bring in, I mean, goodness gracious, we have a Native population here in mountain where we have nowhere else. We have everything we need right here and we can pull this together …
Chris Kresser: Everything you need.
Diane Bode: … in that tribal council, and those sorts of shirt wearers like Crazy Horse and Sitting Bull, okay. Sitting Bull said, “It’s time for us to put down the guns and get together. And for the sake of the children.” He said that right before he left his starsuit rather unexpectedly. All right? And in fact, it’s on the website. Sitting Bull is right there. He said, “We’ve got to put our minds together” for the sake of the children and unleash this formidable … Here’s a playful one for your, maybe not so playful for the people that may be listening to this. Look at the ages of the founding fathers during during the formation of this country.
Chris Kresser: Oh yeah, it’s crazy.
Diane Bode: Nine, 10, 11, 12, 16, 17, 18. The average age was 44, but if you look at the number of young men and women that were involved in this and how powerful they were, we need to unleash that power. The greatest time of revolution is between ages 11 and 25. And what have we done with them?
Chris Kresser: Yeah.
Diane Bode: We’ve separated them, isolated them and put them in boxes. These kids need to, we do not have separate grades here. These children are interacting from age three to age 14 at the school. Well, 17, actually, with the ones that are coming in, that have left that are in high school. And you saw what happened with those two-and-a-half-, four- and five-year-olds with those older children interacting.
Chris Kresser: Yes, I mean, Sylvie was helping the two-and-a-half-year-old to lead the miniature horse and lunge it. And it’s amazing. She loves being in that role where she’s the older girl, and then she really loved being around some of the teenagers that were there that were helping out. And it’s that kind of mixed age environment is so important. And this age segregation that goes on in schools, I just, I don’t totally understand it.
But you know, going back to what you said, like this vision, it’s all there, the resources are there, the facility and the property is there, the experience is there, the people that are needed are there. And what is needed now is just some more financial backing to make it possible. And that could be larger or smaller, or it could also be in time commitments. The people to do, to help as administrators. You need an executive director, someone that can really, you are the visionary, Diane. You have the vision, you’re the knowledge holder, you’ve got this deep experience. That generally doesn’t work for that person to also be the person who is making sure all of the logistics are handled and taking care of brass tacks, so to speak.
Even in my company, I play the role of the visionary and the ambassador. And I have what we call them an integrator, executive director-type of people that are making everything happen. And that’s really the best structure. And so we need that as well. And if you’re interested in being a part of this in any way, just stick around and listen for the ending here. We’ll give you some ideas for how you can get involved and help out.
So stick around and listen to the end of the show, because I’m going to record that separately. We’re still working that out at the time of this recording. And I trust, as I know you do, Diane, that when the time is right and you put this thing out into the universe and the need is there that it will be supported. And I know, there are some amazing people who are listening now who are probably getting really excited about being a part of this in some way.
Diane Bode: Well, I remember, I love the movie Field of Dreams, Build it, and they will come. And I also love to pay it forward. And so that’s always been part of this and what the kids feel too. And so we’re just giving our level best and know that at this point, it will receive what it needs. We know we need to do the training, we know we need to gather people, we know we need key things and infrastructure to make it so that it can be a totally integrated whole where people can do an in-residence program here.
And that’s core. They need to step into it. We already have support from elders and what we’re going to be putting in more with the Native. You know that, where the teepee is.
Chris Kresser: Yes, yes.
Diane Bode: And of course we have not only Native American sport, we have the whole mountainman contingency and certainly led by Kris Swanson with Sharp Knife Blanket, who is just writing a book, by the way, that’s coming out on the influence of women during the fur trade time. Okay? So we need some support and we need some shirt wearers in here too that can come in and look at what we’re doing.
I’m downloading the book right now, so that that can be available. And we can document this because once the children have a physical experience, then they can take technology which is more two-dimensional, and they can bring the whole experience into what they’re watching.
Chris Kresser: Exactly.
Diane Bode: If children don’t have that core touch experience, then when they watch a video, it is only partially connecting. Usually it goes right out the window. But if they have the core experience, then the video is something else entirely. Entirely.
Chris Kresser: Yeah, and I forget who said this, but, “Technology makes a great servant, but a poor master.”
Diane Bode: Very poor master, very poor master.
Chris Kresser: And this is the foundation that kids need in order to avoid technology becoming their master, which is unfortunately happening so often. So Diane, thank you so much for …
Diane Bode: You’re welcome.
Chris Kresser: … sharing your time and your vision with us and for being who you are. I am so glad to say that I am a shirt wearer now and I want to play whatever role that I can in making this move to the next level. Because it just, it unites so many different things that I’m interested in and my passion, as my listeners know, for kids and childhood development and making sure that we give our kids the resources and the support that they need to develop into who they really are as human beings and live happy, joyful, connected lives. And thank you so much for doing this work and dedicating your life to this.
Diane Bode: Well, thank you for finding us and supporting us, and for extending the love and trusting us with that beautiful child of yours. Give Sylvie a hug.
Chris Kresser: I will. Take care, Diane.
Diane Bode: Спасибо. Спасибо.
How You Can Get Involved with Another Way School & Community Center
Chris Kresser: Okay, I hope you enjoyed that interview as much as I did. If you’re feeling inspired by what Diane has put together at Another Way school and community center and want to get involved, visit chriskresser.com/anotherway, all one word, to learn more.
If you live in Park City or the surrounding area, or you visit there regularly and you have kids, consider enrolling them in one of the programs in Another Way. The winter ski program with Diane and other teachers is now enrolling students. You can see the video we talked about in the podcast with Diane skiing with the kids to get a sense of what’s possible right here on this page. Diane’s child-centered approach to skiing, which emphasizes kids’ connection to nature in their own bodies, is a unique and powerful method of teaching. And if you watch the video, you’ll see what I mean.
There are also programs in outdoor education and Friluftsliv, mindful horsemanship, frontier skills, and nature-based Montessori education. Again, go to chriskresser.com/anotherway and let us know what you’re interested in, and someone will contact you.
We’re also looking for people who can support the continued growth and development of Another Way, whether that’s through a financial contribution or by volunteering, or by offering other resources. Another Way has tremendous potential to bring more joy, fulfillment, and healing to our kids and teens, not just locally in Park City, but around the country and the world by training other teachers to bring this work back to their communities. As you can imagine, developing a robust training program and infrastructure like this, is a major undertaking. So, we’re seeking help from all of you. I’ve become involved myself. I’m a shirt wearer, as Diane puts it, because I believe in the vision and I think now we need it more than ever. We need these kinds of programs to help our kids reconnect with their bodies, with their communities and with the natural world.
Over the last several years, the incidence of chronic disease, and especially behavioral issues like ADHD, autism spectrum disorders, oppositional defiant disorders, sensory processing disorders, etc., is exploding. And I’ve come to see many of these conditions as a consequence, at least in part, of our disconnection from our evolutionary heritage. Not just our diet, but also the way we live, our social networks including elders in our community, our relationship, or lack thereof, with nature, the amount of time we spend on screens, and more. This really is the disease of our time and our kids are suffering tremendously from it, as we are as adults. So, the treatment, so to speak, has to be much more than just changing our diet and taking supplements. We have to reevaluate our way of being and how we approach our lives. And this is what Diane and her team at Another Way are doing, and it’s why I’m supporting them.
So, if you feel inspired to get involved in some way, whether that’s enrolling your children in the ski or horsemanship program, or possibly training as a teacher in any of these approaches, or supporting the continued development of the training programs and the school financially, visit chriskresser.com/anotherway, Another Way is all one word there, to get in touch. That’s chriskresser.com/anotherway. Okay, everybody, thanks for listening. We’ll talk to you next time.